Something’s up with Nassau County (NY) Civil Service.
I know this blog is generally about NYC civilian civil service, but I receive a lot of questions and discussion regarding the fairness in the overall civil service hiring process.
NYC still has many issues with certain aspects, like hiring within the 1 in 3 rule, provisional reduction, their use of education and experience exams and that qualified people have to appeal because they “appear” to be unqualified.
But more often than not, NYC is way ahead of their other NYS civil service counterparts. They have a centralized agency – DCAS – handling the generating and delivery of tests, a running history of Notice of Examinations (NOE’s) that can be referenced on their self-hosted, publicly available website, along with a set of personnel rules and regulations among other information. With NYC Open Data you can search for any exam list that is active. And most NYC agency Human Resource departments abide by the rules – although it gets a bit dicey when you get to the individual bureau or group that does the hiring. When I’ve hired people I always had an HR person follow up to make sure they were hired under the proper conditions (e.g.: they had the right licenses, credentials validated, taken in proper order from the list, etc.)
Other Civil Service Opportunities
I have a friend who came across an exam that was being offered in Nassau County. She felt I was well qualified for it and suggested I consider taking it – just because “you never know”. Being the strange dude that I am, I didn’t see any issue with that recommendation. I easily exceeded the requirements for the job. It had a six figure salary in the offer. Pay for and take an exam with little information, no study guide, and that I’m not sure if I’d take the job if offered? The civil service junkie in me couldn’t resist. So “Superintendent of Alarms”, here I come.
Now, I did take an exam for Superintendent of Alarms in Nassau County many, many years ago – I don’t exactly recall, but it was a time when I had hair, didn’t need glasses, and probably less rubber around the waist – although the latter may be debated by my acquaintances and colleagues that knew me back then.
When I took this first test, I passed and was number one on the list! I waited for the call for an interview or a follow-up letter. And I waited. I waited some more. After several months I tried calling Nassau County Civil Service – this was before the internet, e-mail, and cell phones were only for the rich and famous and had to be installed in vehicles. No one could tell me anything – when the list would be called, if there were interviews taking place, or even if I was rejected for some reason.
After a while it just “went away”. I don’t know if I was bypassed using the “1 in 3” rule. Perhaps I was somehow found “disqualified” although I know I had the right stuff back then too. There was no printed or published list that I could find to know how many others were on the list. No way to even know if they just went down the list for “their guy” and bypassed the rest of us.
So, with this recent exam, lo and behold, six months later I received my outcome of this test. I scored 100 again and I’m number one on this list too!
It’s been six months since I received my score notification, and over a year since the exam itself, so I attempted to contact Nassau County to get a status update – but the email contacts I’ve found and used haven’t generated a response.
As many of us know, six months is nothing in Civil Service time. But, I’m afraid this will go into the abyss; similar to what happened to me the first time. I’d like to at least be called for an interview. Even with the 1 in 3 rule, I would think I’d be called in and they’d work around me to get down the list – unless “their guy” is too far down and they don’t want to risk it. But, on the other hand, maybe they’d want to think about hiring someone that low on the list – unless there’s something else at work behind the scenes…
When I sat for the exam, the classroom I was in seemed to be the only one hosting this particular exam. Several of the test takers seemed to know each other. Some started to “razz” another guy about how they were going to take his job. I believe this test was directed to one particular agency aimed at one particular guy. I might have inadvertently disrupted the expected outcome of events.
Not Uncommon
This “one agency” situation comes up kind of often in Nassau County. I know several county employees who would like to move up in title but can’t because they’re restricted by jurisdiction. See this announcement:
Note that the candidate “must be employed by the jurisdiction in which promotion is sought”.
What if someone was a Senior Typist Clerk in another school district supported by Nassau County Civil Service but wanted a promotion to Principal Typist Clerk? There’s no official restriction for promotions in NYC like this. An agency might “use some techniques” to make sure they get their people in spots, but if my Stock Worker wanted to take a promotion to Senior Stock Worker in another agency, the essential tasks are similar and the test is the same. They can take the promotion and keep their seniority, benefits, longevity, etc.
I know people who left Nassau County Civil Service because of this restriction in mobility. They didn’t want to be stuck in a certain facility with promotion opportunities arising only when someone retires or passes on. Nor did they want to keep taking entry level exams so they could get their “foot in the door” of another agency or district in the hopes that they had better promotional options in the future.
Yup, something’s up with Nassau County. Home of the “Long Beach” provisional debacle that started the aggressive NY State reduction in provisionals (a good thing). At least in the city I’d get a few offers to be interviewed with the possibility of moving to another agency if I wanted to.
But, then again, it’s only been six months. 3 ½ years to go before the list expires. Wait to the end of the period before calling it, hoping that most of us on the list lose interest or go away?
Hey, I’m already in a permanent civil service title. I got nothin’ but time…
Questions or comments are welcomed below.
Hello:
Your site is very helpful. I have few questions and I will appreciate your answer.
1. For “computer systems manager” has last application date from 10/3/2018-10/23/2018. Does it mean the nest open competitive application date will be around 2022?
2. I read the whole notice, but did not understand how the test will be conducted? Is the selection is based on the resume or education/experience? Is there any written or verbal exam?
3. I really like to get in the city job? Do you suggest me to apply directly without waiting till 2022?
Thanks.
Hi,
The application date for Computer Systems Manager (CSM) you have appears to be for exam 9011. It appears that is still an active list and was established November 2019. What that means is that people can still be hired off that list, so if you take a provisional position and are not on the list, you run the risk of losing your job to someone called off the list.
Lists usually run for four years – so I’d suspect it would be inactive after November 2023. However, if they run out of candidates in the meantime, they could have another test before 2023.
DCAS can change the format of the test each time. My first test included both multiple choice as well as essay – but later exams were multiple choice only.
I suspect the next CSM test will be the same – education and experience. The computer world has many aspects and it’s difficult to test for any one thing anymore. And the last time they proposed a multiple choice test for a different computer title the question pool included questions on floppy drives and 16 bit systems…
Now it’s important to know that when you do apply for an education and experience exam that you only describe your qualifications as written in the Notice of Examination. The people and/or computers going through the resumes and qualifications don’t understand specific jargon or systems. You would then have to appeal a decision. Please check out my posts on Education and Experience exams as well as Filing an Appeal. They might save you some work.
If you do apply for openings in the meantime and are not called from the list, you will be hired provisionally. This means you will have to later take the exam, pass it, and be called off the list to become a permanent civil servant. Know that you could be replaced if they can’t “reach” you on the list. Unfortunately it’s not easy to determine how you would make out “down the road” – would you pass the exam, what number would you be, would your agency wait and try and keep you, etc. So make sure you know that you could be let go if you work as a provisional.
I hope this helps clear things up a bit. It is confusing, which is why I started this site.
Good luck! – Chris